Letters re: Why I Left Our Way Church
Below is some feedback we've received regarding Allan Mack's Why I Left Our Way Church.
Subject: About your story, "Why I Left OWC"
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002
From: Pastor Joseph (name and e-mail address edited
for confidentiality purposes)
To: Battered Sheep Ministry
Dear ones:
I have read your admonishing web message to your previous church. Though I agree with most of the things you expressed in this message, I still believe that you should have stayed there for some more time and tried to address the issues. Although you are very sincere in your approach to solve the problems in that church, your leaving the church is not scriptural on which all your arguments are based. You admit your own mistakes and failures in that church. Revival must start with "I" not with "them". God always use a person to stand in the gap, not a committee or crowd. Your request to them to clean up the church, then I will return, never worked or works.
You will find it hard to find a model church of your liking as all the churches have people in it (people with problems). If you find a perfect church, please don't go there, once you walk in there, that church won't be perfect anymore, now you are there.
I admire your scriptural knowledge.
I admire your concern for the needy, evangelism, mission, etc.
I admire your enthusiasm to correct a church that you left.
Then I loudly wonder how genuinely you tried to solve the problems when you were there. We cannot remote control a local church from outside irrespective of how sincere we are. Only sacrifice and service can change a church. Look what Jesus did. He could have remote controlled from heaven (without coming here) and established a perfect church for Him using His divine status. He didn't do that. He came, he suffered and He sacrificed. The church is there because of His sacrifice. You and I are often not ready for that.
I thought of challenging you because you are so eager to challenge the leaders in your former church. I challenge you to go back there now and give your life there, probably the only hope for that church.
For the sake of His church, I sincerely hope the leaders of His churches will look sincerely to the issues you raised in their own local churches and do everything possible to fulfill the Great Commission. The issues you raised are very useful for the local leaders to re-examine their own church leadership in the light of the scripture and the points that you raised here. Definitely, it is not in vain.
With that let me close here. I will be very happy to discuss this further with you.
With regards
Pastor Joseph
Michigan
Subject: Re: About your story, "Why I Left OWC"
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002
From: Battered Sheep Ministry
To: Pastor Joseph (name and e-mail address edited
for confidentiality purposes)
Dear brother Joseph,
Greetings in our Lord Jesus Christ! Thank you so much for taking the time to write to us! We truly appreciate your feedback.
"I have read your admonishing web message to your previous church. Though I agree with most of the things you expressed in this message, I still believe that you should have stayed there for some more time and tried to address the issues. Although you are very sincere in your approach to solve the problems in that church, your leaving the church is not scriptural on which all your arguments are based."
While I appreciate your sentiments and agree that leaving a church should not be a hasty decision, I don't think you fully understand what we went through. It really boils down to a few basic issues.
First of all, Our Way Church (OWC) was authoritarian in its leadership as opposed to the biblical pattern of servant agape leadership exemplified by our Lord Jesus and the apostles.
Secondly, there was unwillingness to talk over differences. If there is no communication, how can differences be resolved?!
Thirdly, the church leadership was very unloving in how they treated us: ignoring memos, attacking us behind our backs, spreading gossip, etc.
In light of the authoritarian power structure, not much can be done when they control all the decisions. I know you mean well, but unless you were in our shoes, it's really hard for you to understand the anguish and pain we went through.
Also, we didn't want to draw anyone into the conflict, so we quietly left. But after we left, they continued to slander us. Eventually others found out because of the gossiping, and we lost so-called former "friends".
John Reisinger, a pastor and evangelist who has experienced his share of church divisions, says it well:
"When you cannot sit down with an open Bible and instruct as well as learn in gentleness, then your only recourse is angry name-calling, using the authority of 'your duly authorized office of pastor'. ... What can be done by an individual if it is absolutely impossible for him to get a hearing for the truth in his local assembly?"
"When Should a Christian Leave a Church?" (Sound of Grace, n.d.), p. 7,11.
I suggest you locate a copy of his booklet and read it to see his answer to that question.
On what biblical grounds do you offer for saying: "your leaving the church is not scriptural"??
Are you saying one can NEVER leave a church? What criteria do you suggest whereby one can leave a church?? If you have suggestions, please let us know!
"You admit your own mistakes and failures in that church. Revival must start with "I" not with "them". God always use a person to stand in the gap, not a committee or crowd. Your request to them to clean up the church, then I will return, never worked or works."
Yes, we struggled a lot, and for a long time before finally deciding to move on. As we said, when the doors of communication are closed, there's not much that can be done. And yes, we do not hesitate to admit our mistakes - that is not a problem. The problem is that THEY are NOT willing to admit to any wrong.
"You will find it hard to find a model church of your liking as all the churches have people in it (people with problems). If you find a perfect church, please don't go there, once you walk in there, that church won't be perfect anymore, now you are there."
We're not looking for a church of OUR liking. We are calling Christians to get back to the basics. While we admit that searching for NT church principles/practices can often be simplistic, nevertheless it doesn't mean we shouldn't seek to be biblical as best as we can discern, by God's grace.
Frankly, we grow weary of hearing that trite remark about the "perfect church". We're not THAT naive!
"Then I loudly wonder how genuinely you tried to solve the problems when you were there. We cannot remote control a local church from outside irrespective of how sincere we are."
We are not attempting to "remote control" the church. As to how much or how well we tried to solve the problems, that is hard for us to assess impartially, so we'll have to leave it to the Lord.
"Only sacrifice and service can change a church. Look what Jesus did. He could have remote controlled from heaven (without coming here) and established a perfect church for Him using His divine status. He didn't do that. He came, he suffered and He sacrificed. The church is there because of His sacrifice. You and I are often not ready for that."
We agree heartily with you on that. We also know that God is patient and forgiving when we make mistakes. But the fact remains that we are living in a fallen world, between the "now" and the "not yet", awaiting the consummation of our salvation in the eschaton. Until then, we are painfully aware of the sad divisions that have plagued church history throughout the centuries.
I mean, what church do you belong to? If you're a Baptist, why don't you join up with the Lutheran? Or if you're a Presbyterian, why doesn't your church just merge with the Methodists? You get our point. The biblical ideals are often tempered by our sinfulness and failures. No one likes denominationalism and divisions, but they're here to stay, until our Lord returns. (That's not to say that we don't strive for unity of course).
"I thought of challenging you because you are so eager to challenge the leaders in your former church. I challenge you to go back there now and give your life there, probably the only hope for that church."
We sincerely appreciate the challenge. But as we said before, they are NOT willing to listen. Their leadership is based on authoritarianism and power. Their membership form stipulates an unbiblical condition, which they are unwilling to discuss over an open Bible and with an open mind.
"For the sake of His church, I sincerely hope the leaders of His churches will look sincerely to the issues you raised in their own local churches and do everything possible to fulfill the Great Commission. The issues you raised are very useful for the local leaders to re-examine their own church leadership in the light of the scripture and the points that you raised here. Definitely, it is not in vain."
Thank you for those closing words. We heartily agree with you. That is the burden of our hearts as well. We do not wish them ill; rather, we pray that they would at least re-examine some things and seek the Lord's guidance. We are NOT saying we have all the right answers. We are not asking that they agree with everything we've suggested. All we're asking is that they be willing to dialogue and discern, and make changes where necessary.
We all fall short (and we freely admit our faults!) and as you intimated, we all need each other.
We concur that leaving a church is not the best thing to do, but sometimes, one feels there is no other choice. Perhaps some day there will be reconciliation. This is our prayer, and we trust God will answer it.
Check back on our website soon, as we will have some articles on biblical authority and leadership that will shed some light on this whole matter.
Your brother in Christ,
Allan
John 13:34,35
Subject: Church leadership
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002
From: Pastor Joseph (name and e-mail address edited
for confidentiality purposes)
To: Battered Sheep Ministry
Dear Allan:
Thank you so much for the detailed response to my email to you. I sincerely agree with you that it is very difficult to continue in a church where the leadership is authoritarian and unwilling to listen to the folks with an open mind and with the open Word.
Yes, I have no idea what you all went through. My comment was based on my assessment of your writings (I have not heard at all the other side) which gave me the notion that your web site may have a motivation to remote control the church you left although the intention is good and for the sake of changing that church. I personally feel that you can change/reform a church only by being there. Hence my pleading with you in the last email. If the leadership is not willing to listen, there is not much you can do. Leave them in the hands of our Lord, who is zealous in taking care of His church. Sometimes our own enthusiasm can trap us in spiritual arrogance.
You can leave a church at least on two major grounds:
1. Immorality in the leadership or even toleration of
it.
2. False teaching.
I am from a Brethren background. I am one of the elders at my church. As perhaps you are aware, we believe in plurality of leadership which avoids (mostly) the dictatorship or authoritarianism in the local body of His church. We have seven elders including one full-time pastor/elder. All are equal when it comes to make any major decision for the church. We are very open to the folks. So, I understand the agony that you are going through.
I am also a volunteer Executive Director for a ministry that does gospel work in India.
I mentioned these private details not to boast, but to give you the idea that my comments in the last email were sincere and came from a loving heart. I would love to see God's people live in harmony and always striving for the furtherance of His kingdom and the spreading of the Gospel. Satan is so busy in robbing the joy of His saints. We must be watchful of that in everything that we do for Him and His kingdom.
I pray that God enable you to find a God-fearing and God-honoring church. It is not a bad idea to check out a few Brethren assemblies in your area.
With regards.
Yours in Christ,
Pastor Joseph
Subject: Re: Church leadership
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002
From: Battered Sheep Ministry
To: Pastor Joseph (name and e-mail address edited
for confidentiality purposes)
Hi brother Joseph,
It's good to hear from you again.
"Dear Allan,
Thank you so much for the detailed response to my email to you. I sincerely agree with you that it is very difficult to continue in a church where the leadership authoritarian and unwilling to listen to the folks with an open mind and with open Word."
Indeed. If Christians aren't willing to discuss our differences with each other, than what can one do?!
"I personally feel that you can change/reform a church only by being there. Hence my pleading with you in the last email."
In this regard, we heartily agree with you. But as you see now, we weren't attempting to reform the church, though reading the articles may have led you to assume so.
"If the leadership is not willing to listen, there is not much you can do. Leave them in the hands of our Lord, who is zealous in taking care of His church."
Yes, and one of the sisters in the church who's been there for a long time has admitted that the sort of things we wrote about have been going on for years, but nobody has been willing to question or challenge the errors/problems.
"Sometimes our own enthusiasm can trap us in spiritual arrogance."
We concur with that, and we've tried to proceed with the right attitudes, though we've failed at times, no doubt. We have discussed this situation with several other godly Christian leaders and they have agreed that in a situation like ours, leaving quietly seems to be the only solution.
"You can leave a church at least on two major grounds:
1. Immorality in the leadership or even toleration of it.
2. False teaching."
Well, #2 seems to be in order here, although what constitutes "false teaching" is not always easy to agree to, hence the multiplicity of divisions and denominations, even within the Brethren movement.
"I am from a Brethren background. I am one of the elders at my church."
My friend, Paul Sue, (the co-founder of Battered Sheep Ministry) also comes from a Brethren background. He notes from reading Brethren history books, as well as his own experiences that some Brethren groups have divided over the silliest things.
"As perhaps you are aware, we believe in plurality of leadership which avoids (mostly) the dictatorship or authoritarianism in the local body of His church."
Yes, we agree with a plurality of leaders. However, in many Brethren circles, an elder with a dominant personality often ends up being the "senior elder' who has the most influence in making decisions.
"We have seven elders including one full-time pastor/elder. All are equal when it comes to make any major decision for the church."
Well, the term "elder" and "pastor" are synonymous in Scripture. We have no problem that one (or more) of the elders may have a greater measure of the gift of teaching, but I don't think the NT rules out that teaching is relegated to just one man. A brother who is gifted as a teacher should be at liberty to exercise his gift as well. It seems many Brethren assemblies are beginning to delegate most of the formal teaching to a seminary-trained, full-time "pastor". (We're not against seminary training, but believe that God gifts others to teach, even of they aren't formally trained).
"I would love to see God's people live in harmony and always striving for the furtherance of His kingdom and the spreading of the Gospel."
We also deeply share your desire to see more unity. But that unity cannot be at the expense of the truth. That's why we so strongly advocate open-mindedness and open dialogue so that we can all learn together. None of us knows it all. We need each other. Unfortunately, because of the false clergy-laity distinction (which the Brethren have historically rejected), an aura of superiority pervades the leadership of many churches, resulting in an unwillingness to talk to "dumb" laymen.
"I pray that God enable you to find a God fearing and God honoring church. It is not a bad idea to check out a few Brethren assemblies in your area."
Thanks, I may do that. Unfortunately, there are a lot of problems that plague the brethren assemblies in our area. But we're sure there are some good ones. And we're NOT looking for the perfect church. While we agree with much of the Brethren distinctives, there are some areas that require rethinking. Please see:
http://www.ntrf.org
http://www.searchingtogether.org
for some of the issues we're studying. Basically, we just want to rethink church traditions in light of what the NT teaches. We know we won't be able to understand it all perfectly, but we will try our best by God's grace and with the help of other believers, including yourself!
Thanks again for sharing with us! Keep in touch.
Allan
